Well I will try and stick with the spirit of subject lines :)) >Many of them are made by the crudest possible process, hand >stuffed and dip-soldered in a big solder pot, cleaning >consists of slushing in a bucket of solvent with a cooking >spoon and labor costs $10 a day. Just dismantled an Akai video recorder that was beyond economic repair, and am amazed at the PCB technology therein. Single sided phenolic board, with SMD components on one side, and gazillions of wire links. Any electrolytic appears to be a leaded component, no smd electros anywhere. Assembled in Indonesia, for the UK market. Still, it looks like I will get a few crystals and resonators for projects from it. cannot work out who makes the IR receiver though, it has only what looks like a date code on it. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.