Hi, After reading everything about the AVR/PIC discussion over the last few days I finally decided it was time to try and get my dirty little hands on a programmer and a processors of theirs. Still not much luck. I learnt that it is impossible to order 1 AVRISP, 1 ATMega16 & 1 ATMega32 from any of the distributors in South Africa without hastle... If not impossible. The first attempt, after waiting several hours for a quatation, indicated that they can not provide me With the above mentioned order because its too small... Apparently it costs them around $60 to process the order and they will not make money on it and thus are not able to provide me with the items requested. The second attempt, albeit a telephonic order attempt, resulted in being told that I have to wait up to a week for the programmer (which is not too big a problem) AND that I have to order minimum quantities of 10 pieces of the processors indicated before it will happen... Needless to say that I am responsible for import costs from their international warehouse blah blah blah. My problem is this. I am currently using Microchip and am willing to investigate the possibility of using Atmel products because according to their datasheets and my needs the atmel processors will be better suited for what I want to achieve, in addition to that the development tools seem more attractive. Do the people of Atmel know that their products are being represented in this fashion? I don't want free samples... I want to buy the stuff I need to make a descision but they want me to buy 1k pieces before I know which processors are best suited for me? I think not. Regards, Andre Thomas -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics