On Mon, Mar 22, 2004 at 04:35:58AM -0800, Duane Wood wrote:
> I am a software developer (Java, C++, C, ...) with
> some basic hobby experience breadboarding very simple
> circuits.  I want to get started with PICs, but I am
> having a tough time figuring out which chip,
> programmer, and compiler to use.

It's always an issue.

>
> What (I think) I want is:
> * a PIC using the newest CPU core -- i.e., 18Fxxx

Good choice.

> * in circuit programming -- I don't like the thought
> of moving the chip around, breaking pins, etc.

Great choice!

> * programmer software that runs on Windows XP

Given.

> * an inexpensive C compiler

Good Luck! The only way to do this is to use the Microchip C18 demo and
reset/reinstall every 60 days. My personal feeling is that C is overrated
for microcontroller development. That's one reason why folks like Wouter,
Sergio, Craig, and myself write other languages.

> * All this for under $200 -- otherwise my wife will
> make me pay in other ways :)
>
> Am I asking too much?

Other than the compiler? No.

>
> Here are some options I am considering:
> 1. Wouter van Ooijen's Wisp628 programmer. Uses
> bootloader, but I have to get the bootloader
> programmed.

Just buy one from Wouter. Or build a cheap bootstrap programmer (less than $10
on a breadboard and an hour's worth of time) to get WISP628 loaded onto the
628. It's a one time deal and doesn't take much cost or effort to pull off.
But with Wouter's prices it's probably worth it to simply buy either the
preprogrammed chip, or even a completely assembled programmer from him.

>  Also, I think I would have to use JAL.

Nope. Language neutral. Use any language you like.

> While this seems like a reasonable language, I would
> prefer not to learn another language.

Understood. But after discussing the other issues, you may want to rethink
this.

> Also, it
> doesn't sound like the programmer software for the PC
> supports Windows XP.

Sure it does! There's been several threads talking about XWisp and its setup.
Wouter is really (and I mean REALLY!) good about having cross platform support.

> 2. Warp 13.  This looks like a decent programmer, but
> the disclaimer about in-circuit programming concerns
> me.  I really would like to do in-circuit programming.

And it's costly in the relative scheme of things ($100 USD)

> 3. MPLAB ICD 2.  This sounds like it might work, but
> is a bit expensive.  Also, I'm not sure if it supports
> 18Fxxx chips or whether I need additional parts.

Not sure on the 18F chips, but very very sure on the cost. Peter Anderson has
a cheaper alternative listed on his PIC site (http://www.phanderson.com) which
runs $53 using the Olimex knockoff)

The only advantage I see it giving you over the Wisp628 is in circuit
debugging.

>
> I would greatly appreciate any help with my decision
> so I can get started.

Well I'll throw out one more programming option: ZPL bootloading. Wouter has
written a bootloader for the 18F family that handles most of your development
issues:

1) ZPL is strictly in circuit.
2) Unlike the programmers and ICD, ZPL uses no I/O pins! So you get your full
use of portB without having to wire workarounds on the clock and data pins.
3) It's language neutral.

Sorry this is late. I ran out of the the house this morning without finishing
the message.

BAJ

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