anyone know right off the top of their head what the current requirements are for programming the 167877 ? I am using the Epic programmer, but I think I am going to build an interface to go into my PC and have the display and 4 swithces mounted on one of the CD slot in the frot of the PC so I can program from the decsktop and not have to keep hooking things up all the time. Just a thought Eddie Turner, kc4awz -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.