OK, I've been quiet but this thread is just too good to leave alone. Back in college I had a part time job repairing the old-style pinball machines with 100's of relays, solenoids and contacts that would either get dirty or have their wires break. You get inside by sliding the glass off and then raising the bed like a car hood (bonnet). I was short so I would stand on a box at the front with most of my body hanging inside. I had been chasing a problem with the set of schematics and my non-technical boss insisted on standing next to me yammering away about something - I tried my best to ignore him. I found the broken wire, reached up for the soldering iron and proceeded to pick it up by the wrong end. After the seared flesh smell dissapaited, he decided that maybe he would go back to his office and let me concentrate. That is now my first level of testing a technician - hand them a soldering iron and see if they grab the right end. So far, I'm the only one to fail this. Only once, however. Steve -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads