> I've been extremely busy lately and haven't been following the threads and
> haven't looked back to read what possibly could have provoked the removal
of
> Olin from the list,

If you are going to pass judgement, as you do below, and you want it to have
any value, then you owe it to yourself to actually read what it was about
and why. If you said the above to Olin and it was a technical matter he
would abuse you roundly for wasting his and other people's time.

> but this is just poor judgement and childish on the parts
> of the list maintainers

Criticism, especially direct criticism as this is, of the list maintainers
shows not only extremely poor judgement but a complete lack of appreciation
of what it takes to run a list and stay sane at the same time. I realise
that you will probably say in retrospect that that was a flippant and light
hearted statement and wan't meant to carry any level of insult. However, in
the midst of a blowup such as we are having at present, admins can be
guaranteed to be feeling very got at, and a little thinking in advance of
making statements like that would be useful.

IF you had actually read the material involved (Olins, comment, admins
comment on past history, some of the thread) then you might be in a position
to level valid criticism. All it would then take would be a past period
spent as a list admin so you know how it feels.

>and those advocating removal of any member from the list.

OK - others you are allowed to criticise :-)

>  Posting and responding to this list is purely voluntary, and the fact
that
> people feel the desire to help others and follow through is wonderful.
> Unfortunately sometimes the answers can be terse, or even come off crude.
But
> really folks, look at the big picture... was anything said that others
weren't
> thinking or wanting to say themselves?

Yes.

The key issues are

- this was a direct contravention to a written on list final warning which
threatened to do what has been done if he did what he did. He did and it
was. .

- The questioner was a first time poster to the list and English certainly
wasn't his first language. He had obviously tried extremely hard indeed in
some areas but was doing inexplicable things in others. Olin's response was
probably the first he got from the list.

I doubt if we will ever find out why what the poster was doing. Just
possibly his English is so bad that he missed the point, but I doubt it.

> and hear things you could have done without... but in the end, no real
harm
> was done.

If losing a list 1st poster (as has happened on similar occasions before
now) is "no real harm ... done" then you could be right.

>  Unfortunately, in all of this, if Olin has already been removed, I doubt
> inviting Olin back would do any good.  I know I wouldn't come back,

Olin may prove to have more guts than you credit him with. There was a
similar incident some years ago with another person and they accepted the
offer to return to the list after a short time away. I was surprised that
they had the fortitude to do so - Olin is capable enough and confident
enough to not cut off his nose to spite his face.

> that I mourn a valuable loss of knowledge and experience to this list.

I do too.

> Maybe next time the complainers and maintainers will think before
bannering anyone.

Naughty naughty - criticising the poor overworked admin again. IF you took
the time to read the thread (or at least the admin's comments) you'll see
that it was indeed done with thought. If anyone failed to think it was Olin
(even more so than the original questioner).





        Russell McMahon

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