I've been extremely busy lately and haven't been following the threads and haven't looked back to read what possibly could have provoked the removal of Olin from the list, but this is just poor judgement and childish on the parts of the list maintainers and those advocating removal of any member from the list. Posting and responding to this list is purely voluntary, and the fact that people feel the desire to help others and follow through is wonderful. Unfortunately sometimes the answers can be terse, or even come off crude. But really folks, look at the big picture... was anything said that others weren't thinking or wanting to say themselves? Not every reply to a given question is helpful, and often times it takes a few posts back and forth before the "real" problem reveals itself. Additionally, we all have our pet peeves and sometimes a post hits that nerve and we fly off the handle a bit... no big deal... a little tolerance and understanding. This is the internet people... sometimes you are going to see and hear things you could have done without... but in the end, no real harm was done. Those that lurk because they are afraid to "get their heads bit off" are only slowing their own progress. I know when I need help I'll post... and I expect full well to get jumped with a snide comment or two... or the obvious questions like "how do you know it's X?" But in the end, even if my question/problem is not answered I still will have learned something. Unfortunately, in all of this, if Olin has already been removed, I doubt inviting Olin back would do any good. I know I wouldn't come back, and so for that I mourn a valuable loss of knowledge and experience to this list. Maybe next time the complainers and maintainers will think before bannering anyone. Keith L. Kovala klk@renderedelement.com -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads