When I took over as owner of this list, several people who I have a deep respect for had already left because of rudeness or just the pure waste of bandwidth that this sort of thing causes. I added topic tags and set (and enforced) some standards of civility which I tempered with an awareness of how "valuable" a given person may be. I have put up with a lot of childish rudeness, outbursts, and posting from Olin when he just didn't have anything nice to say but couldn't keep from saying something. I posted a public final warning to him not long ago. My 6 year old knows that if I start to count and I get to three, he will be punished. No question. His mother doesn't always follow through. When I count, he listens. When she counts, he doesn't. I posted a final warning, and that IS final. Thank you for noting that this list is NOT a democracy. I have always chosen to ask people to vote and I may have misled you by doing so. I listen, but in the end, the decision is mine. I don't want a list where people can call other people names like 6 year olds just because they happen to be "professionals." We are not flies and Olin is no lord. It is the signal to noise ratio and character of its members along with the level of expertise and willingness to help that makes a list great. I'm very sorry to dismiss Olin, but I think we will limp along ok without him. I would like to mention one other thing. When I joined, the list had 1500 members. When Olin joined, it had 2000 members. We are now at around 1400. I personally think the "tone" of the list has more to do with that than anything else. Please change the topic tag to [OT]: if you wish to discuss this on the list any further. --- James. -----Original Message----- From: pic microcontroller discussion list [mailto:PICLIST@MITVMA.MIT.EDU] On Behalf Of Robert Rolf Sent: 2004 Feb 16, Mon 12:09 To: PICLIST@MITVMA.MIT.EDU Subject: Re: FW: [PIC]: PIC18F8720 insuccesses. A bad day/week/month? Importance: Low The lower part was originally sent privately to James. Since we seem to be voting publicly on the actions taken, here are my few kilobits worth. Just because Olin rubs SOME people the wrong way is no reason to summarily punt him, regardless of what your mother taught you. If we were all perfectly polite, it would be a boring list. While the list may not be a democracy, different cultures will bring different levels of tolerance/irritation to the list and there should be an appreciation by ALL on this list that English is not necessarily a posters first language (look at the use of 'insuccesses' on this thread). Part of requirements of being on a large list is to develop a thick skin and to not take offense were none is clearly intended. We all do stupid things, particularly when sleep deprived after long hours of design/coding/debugging. So maybe Olin has been working at things to hard and wasn't diplomatic. But that's Olin. It was his choice to spend time formulating a response (however sarcastic), when he could just as easily have ignored the post. The current posting ratio seems to be about 10 to 1 in favour of Olin. Who'd have thunk it? Are you willing to restore his subscription with a warning to 'lighten up'? R James While Olin may not have been sufficiently diplomatic in his tirade, I happen to agree with his assessment of the poster. It was a pretty stupid way to ask for help. By making his point as strongly as he did Olin may have actually connected with the poster, and made others THINK about how they post. Olin's moodiness is well known on the list, and I think your unilateral deletion of his subscription was a bit hasty. A private reprimand would have been more appropriate. I suppose you've never had an 'off' day, nor found the many stupid things that PICLIST subscribers do to be irritating? Or do you suffer fools gladly? May I suggest that you put it to a vote, since this list is supposedly for ALL of us. As you have pointed out, Olin's advice is generally excellent, but he is also human, and can make mistakes too (like responding to a post he could have more easily ignored). "James Newton, Host" wrote: > > Olin has been deleted from the PICList. > > No amount of excellent advice is worth being called an idiot. Except when the shoe fits?? Expecting help for a cryptic machine language listing?? How would YOU have responded if the poster had written you directly for help? Robert Byron A Jeff wrote: > > On Sun, Feb 15, 2004 at 07:43:11PM -0800, James Newton, Host wrote: > > Olin has been deleted from the PICList. > > > > No amount of excellent advice is worth being called an idiot. > > James, > > I think you're making a mistake here. First and foremost, Olin called > no one an idiot. He stated that the action will get you dismissed as an idiot. A fine distinction, but an important one. Olin criticized the behaviour, not the person. " Posting unsimulated raw machine code will just get you dismissed as an idiot. " > Secondly, while Olin probably could use a charm school lesson or two, > he is more than right on point. In fact the only thing I was thinking > when I read the post the first time is "Why is Olin even wasting time on this drivel?" > But I realized that he was trying to teach the OP the mistakes of his ways. > > Please reconsider this action, as I fervently believe that it is a mistake. > > BAJ R -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads