---- START NEW MESSAGE --- Received: from cherry.ease.lsoft.com [209.119.0.109] by dpmail10.doteasy.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id AD826AFF0116; Sun, 01 Feb 2004 14:28:18 -0800 Received: from PEAR.EASE.LSOFT.COM (209.119.0.19) by cherry.ease.lsoft.com (LSMTP for Digital Unix v1.1b) with SMTP id <17.00CC82A5@cherry.ease.lsoft.com>; 1 Feb 2004 17:28:10 -0500 Received: from MITVMA.MIT.EDU by MITVMA.MIT.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8e) with spool id 4600 for PICLIST@MITVMA.MIT.EDU; Sun, 1 Feb 2004 17:28:04 -0500 Received: from MITVMA (NJE origin SMTP@MITVMA) by MITVMA.MIT.EDU (LMail V1.2d/1.8d) with BSMTP id 6233; Sun, 1 Feb 2004 17:27:13 -0500 Received: from embedinc.com [68.162.221.141] by mitvma.mit.edu (IBM VM SMTP Level 430) via TCP with ESMTP ; Sun, 01 Feb 2004 17:27:12 EST X-Comment: mitvma.mit.edu: Mail was sent by embedinc.com Received: from 192.168.0.3 (main) by mail.embedinc.com ; 2004 FEB 01 17:28:16 EST References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <000c01c3e912$84002130$0300a8c0@main> Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 17:27:01 -0500 Reply-To: pic microcontroller discussion list Sender: pic microcontroller discussion list From: Olin Lathrop Subject: Re: [PIC:] AND, and OR To: PICLIST@MITVMA.MIT.EDU Precedence: list X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 371856786 Ken Pergola wrote: > Now that I got your attention, how did those PCB Fab Expres proto > PCBs come out for you? > Would you use them again? The boards themselves came out fine. I've tried a few other boards with them and each time I still had some problems. The second time I put a note in the comments box on the order form "OK to plate all holes" as I was told to do. It still got held up with the same message. I called them up and they apologized and agreed it should not have been held up. The third board I tried got held up again due to the non-plated holes issue, but also because it had slightly more than 25 holes per square inch average. To be fair, this restriction is made clear on their web site. This board was a minor respin of a previous board, and I hadn't realized that it had gone from just under 25 to just over 25 holes/sqin. I called them up and they wanted an additional $50 to do the board. I thought that was rediculous and told them so, and told them to cancel the order. At that point he offered to do it for just $20 more so I let them continue. When I asked about the problem with plated holes *again*, he said it was because I didn't put the comment in the readme file, and he acted like it should have been obvious and I was an idiot for not doing that (then what IS the purpose of the comment box on the order form?). I have a fourth board in to them right now. I have meanwhile changed my board release script to add "OK to plate all holes" as a note in the readme file, and I also wrote that in the comments box on the order form. We'll see if that's finally enough. There were a few other boards I would have done thru them, but these boards didn't meet the restrictions on minimum pad sizes. They were 4 layer boards, so I had them done with PCB Express instead. All in all my conclusion is that this place is a good deal if your board happens to meet their rather restrictive criteria. 25 holes/sqin average is easy to exceed, and their minimum pad pitch rules out a lot of surface mount packages. They are also don't treat you very nicely and this plated holes nonsense is just silly. I can live with that in return for the lower price, but I won't refer people there because I'd essentially be putting my name on the rudeness. I don't see the point of such a steep price increase at 25 holes/sqin average when the board is well under the size limit for the price catagory. The same board would have passed their test if I had just added .1 inch dead space to one side. It would still have been in the same size catagory and would have been the original price. I don't see how the slightly larger board with everything else the same is cheaper to produce. There is an artificial pricing structure in here somewhere. Too bad they can't be more realistic in their pricing. ***************************************************************** Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts (978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads .