---- START NEW MESSAGE --- Received: from cherry.ease.lsoft.com [209.119.0.109] by dpmail10.doteasy.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id A3AC14EA0226; Sun, 01 Feb 2004 08:05:00 -0800 Received: from PEAR.EASE.LSOFT.COM (209.119.0.19) by cherry.ease.lsoft.com (LSMTP for Digital Unix v1.1b) with SMTP id <13.00CC7C15@cherry.ease.lsoft.com>; 1 Feb 2004 11:04:57 -0500 Received: from MITVMA.MIT.EDU by MITVMA.MIT.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8e) with spool id 9821 for PICLIST@MITVMA.MIT.EDU; Sun, 1 Feb 2004 11:04:52 -0500 Received: from MITVMA (NJE origin SMTP@MITVMA) by MITVMA.MIT.EDU (LMail V1.2d/1.8d) with BSMTP id 9112; Sun, 1 Feb 2004 11:03:14 -0500 Received: from snickers.hotpop.com [38.113.3.51] by mitvma.mit.edu (IBM VM SMTP Level 430) via TCP with ESMTP ; Sun, 01 Feb 2004 11:03:13 EST X-Comment: mitvma.mit.edu: Mail was sent by snickers.hotpop.com Received: from hotpop.com (kubrick.hotpop.com [38.113.3.103]) by snickers.hotpop.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 07B5373A2B for ; Sun, 1 Feb 2004 15:41:30 +0000 (UTC) Received: from juan (unknown [200.68.198.222]) by smtp-1.hotpop.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 644481A00A8 for ; Sun, 1 Feb 2004 15:41:24 +0000 (UTC) X-Sender: animacion3d@pop.hotpop.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-HotPOP: ----------------------------------------------- Sent By HotPOP.com FREE Email Get your FREE POP email at www.HotPOP.com ----------------------------------------------- Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20040201160442.006c1ec0@pop.hotpop.com> Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 13:04:42 -0300 Reply-To: pic microcontroller discussion list Sender: pic microcontroller discussion list From: Juan Garofalo Subject: [OT:] On Capitalism, freedom & democracy To: PICLIST@MITVMA.MIT.EDU Precedence: list X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 371856751 Russell, I hope I'm addresing some of the points you raised. ___________________________ Capitalism, also known as laissez-faire, or classical liberalism, is both a political and economic system. Politics and economics can't be split. Chemically pure capitalism depends on a governemt whose sole purpose is to protect individual rights. Life, liberty and private property. Such a government has the monopoly of the use of force, only to be used against people who don't play by the rules, i. e. criminals. At some point in history state and church were separated (in some western countries) Capitalism is the separation of the state from the economical realm, except to protect property rights. It never existed. The closest system to a genuine capitalistic one were the USA from ~1800 to ~1850. Classical liberalism doesn't imply coercion, but protection from violence. Yes, using violence, but AFTER somebody started not playing by the rules. The state becomes the nightwatch state. Not to be confused with a police state. ________________________________ I NEVER said that the price of individual shares can be predicted. My point is that fiat money, central banking, and inflation are all different sides of the state TAMPERING with the money supply. The first step to be able to tamper with it was abandoning the gold standard. Gold can't be counterfeited. Money paper can and is. By the government. So with this 'New Deal' the government and the cartelized banks are now able to expand credit in a 'magical' way. That 'magic' money ends up, one way or another, in the stock market. Stock prices soar. A boom. But it's an artificial boom and sooner or later there is a *real* bust. IF there were no CENTRAL banking, and no cartelized banks such credit expansion wouldn't be feasible. The banks would check one another and no one would be able to counterfeit money through credit expansion. That would be real capitalism. The system we have now is not a true capitalistic one. ______________________________________ >> >> I sent you an off list message wich obviously implies that I didn't want >>to >> send it to the list. You fowarded it. Why didn't you respect my decision >? > >I had no intention to offend you. I do not believe that it was a bad idea. You didn't offended me. I thought we'd gone too far discussing off-topic topics, that's why I wanted to keep it off list. ______________________________________ Finally, on OSS licenses. I'll say just one more time that I'm not opposed to their enforcement. People are free to enter into such contracts. And I'm free to point out what the economical consequences of OSS are. You don't like to hear it, so you try to prove that I don't know what capitalism is. Good. Please drop me an email when the world turns into a "gift economy". Regards, Juan. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads .