---- START NEW MESSAGE --- Received: from cherry.ease.lsoft.com [209.119.0.109] by dpmail10.doteasy.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id AF02295E007C; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 18:25:06 -0800 Received: from PEAR.EASE.LSOFT.COM (209.119.0.19) by cherry.ease.lsoft.com (LSMTP for Digital Unix v1.1b) with SMTP id <14.00CC1CA1@cherry.ease.lsoft.com>; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 21:24:55 -0500 Received: from MITVMA.MIT.EDU by MITVMA.MIT.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8e) with spool id 3098 for PICLIST@MITVMA.MIT.EDU; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 21:24:48 -0500 Received: from MITVMA (NJE origin SMTP@MITVMA) by MITVMA.MIT.EDU (LMail V1.2d/1.8d) with BSMTP id 3528; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 21:24:46 -0500 Received: from linda-3.paradise.net.nz [202.0.58.22] by mitvma.mit.edu (IBM VM SMTP Level 430) via TCP with ESMTP ; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 21:24:45 EST X-Comment: mitvma.mit.edu: Mail was sent by linda-3.paradise.net.nz Received: from smtp-1.paradise.net.nz (smtp-1a.paradise.net.nz [202.0.32.194]) by linda-3.paradise.net.nz (Paradise.net.nz) with ESMTP id <0HS800JC7C1AG7@linda-3.paradise.net.nz> for PICLIST@MITVMA.MIT.EDU; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 15:24:46 +1300 (NZDT) Received: from Paradise (202-0-43-104.adsl.paradise.net.nz [202.0.43.104]) by smtp-1.paradise.net.nz (Postfix) with SMTP id 2AF2582825 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 2004 15:24:46 +1300 (NZDT) MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: <2193429B07D9914D97216EBBAA6AB8BD1A04E3@whitlam.corp.gli.com.au> Message-ID: <002001c3e60f$2b782d60$7b01a8c0@Paradise> Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 15:25:15 +1300 Reply-To: pic microcontroller discussion list Sender: pic microcontroller discussion list From: Russell McMahon Subject: Re: [PIC:] Disassemblers To: PICLIST@MITVMA.MIT.EDU Precedence: list X-RCPT-TO: Status: U X-UIDL: 371856186 > The problem we have here is that the device in question only takes 1 signal > as input, from another device which is purely mechanical, and neither device > is accessible from outside the cabinet of the machine. Ah. Light dawns. I think I understand the type of machine we are talking about. But, of course, I may be wrong. Does the mechanical signal impart time dependent user information or, rather, what is the nature of the signal that is transmitted? Can it be "modulated" by the user? is it INTENDED to be modulated by the user whetnher in duraction or timing. I'd assume one or more of these if the user expects (perhaps forlornly) to excercise any intelligent controls over outcomes. Assume (in the absence of other information for now) that the input device signals commencement of user action but not the duration of user action. Looking for susceptibility to timing patterns in the input seems potentially useful. eg all user input commences on second boundaries, or 10 second boundaries, or is or isnt present at the soonest possible time when this is possible. eg imagine that the machine has a cycle time after the user initiates action. No user action in between is useful. The user elects to attempt new action or not at the first time in each cycle when his input will be acted on. Yes Yes Yes No Yes No No .... or: The user times from when the action may first be acted on by a variable period. Ready - wait 3 seconds Ready - wait 1 seconds Ready - wait 4 seconds Ready - wait 2 seconds ... (1000 Pi :-) ) If the duration that the user activates the mechanism for is also conveyed to the electronics then this would also be usable as a signal, EVEN IF the duration of signalling was not intended for use by the electronics. Some combination of time between user activations & time taken after first available time would provide a lartge number of potential combinations. Also bear in mind the possibility that the "code" is a little hard to hit and that the user is TRYING to trigger a sequence but much of the time fails because his timing efforts are not close enough to what the machine "desires". This would make it much harder to spot. Do I get a look at the source code :-) Russell McMahon -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics .