> seems. I'm thinking that if I were considering a PicStart upgrade > at UKP20, I might be thinking of upgrading to an ICD 2 instead. That's something being given some thought. I'm waiting for a price Ideally I'd like an ICE but the bloody price keeps going up. An ICE2000 is currently NZ$4050 and I simply can't justify that for the type of work I usually do, although I realise it can be a labour saver -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.