So what's with the state of "basic stamp clones", anyway? there have been perhaps half-a-dozen such projects i've seen on the net, none ever getting so far as to produce source code, and most limiting themselves to the 64 bytes of eeprom in a 16F84. Most have faded quiety into the woodwork. Fitting the original basic stamp in a 16c54 was quite a feat of programming, and parallax ought to be proud. Fitting similar acting code in something like a 16f648 ought to be a piece of cake (8 times the program memory, more ram, a "full" 256 bytes of eeprom, and a nicer architecture.) 1) is parallax being hardnosed against such clones? It's probably within their rights, but usually such behavior gets publicized... 2) Do the different timings of internal eeprom and faster clocks and such just make it unusable from an application compatibility point of view? After all, basic is infamous for for/next 'timing loops." 3) or is it just that the availability of compilers and easier programming of (flash based) modern PICs make the whole thing pointless? Anyone who is willing to deal with chips rather than a pre-made board can write faster and more functional code in about the same time... BillW -- http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList mailto:piclist-unsubscribe-request@mitvma.mit.edu