Mike, You 'black' spirit pen may be black in the visible wavelengths, but may be quite reflective in the IR band. You just have to find a black paint/ink that absorbs IR. Since your eyes cannot detect IR, this is difficult! Maybe try various pieces of card painted with various black inks/paints, and see which ones reflect the IR from your TV remote control? Or lay them out in the sun, and see which ones get hot (= absorb IR) Regards, Peter Moreton -----Original Message----- From: pic microcontroller discussion list [mailto:PICLIST@MITVMA.MIT.EDU] On Behalf Of Mike W Sent: 15 September 2003 10:05 To: PICLIST@MITVMA.MIT.EDU Subject: [EE]:Homebrew Opto Encoder advise pse. GM folks, I'm trying to find the 'proper' stuff to make a reflective opto quadrature rotary encoder. I'm having problems in as much as the black ( spirit based felt tip pen ) is reflecting as much IR as the white Please share your experience .. I'm using an old VCR head for the mechanics, with two OPB706a reflective opto couplers as the detectors. they are mounted inside the head assembly and shine on the inside of the VCR head which has a computer drawn wotzit ( can't think of its name ) stuck on the head. spaceing is about 1mm from opto's to wotzit. thanks v much mike -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics