>yes the 18f chips are very cool, but i cant seem to get the >high-tech picc lite to compile for them and i dont have a >18f compatible programmer. PICC-Lite will not do it. they have a separate version of the compiler for the 18 series. I do not think they have a Lite equivalent for that. You may be better off getting the Microchip C18 and using that in demo mode. Apparently the demo mode can be reset for its demo time. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics