Same story with Eli Whitney and "his" cotton gin in the 1790's. (It was actually invented by his slave, and perhaps this is just desserts for Mr. Whitney.) The Cotton Gin was a huge improvement over previous methods and revolutionized cotton growing, making the Cotton industry possible. However, Mr. Whitney spent the remainder of his life litigating and never got very much out of it. Moral: Inventors should keep inventing and stay out of the courtroom. -- Lawrence Lile Jack Smith Sent by: pic microcontroller discussion list 08/11/2003 07:03 PM Please respond to pic microcontroller discussion list To: PICLIST@MITVMA.MIT.EDU cc: Subject: Re: [ot]: How best to sell your gadget? When I was in EE school at Wayne State University in the mid 60's, my dynamics and statics professor was a man named Robert Kearns. Around that time he patented the intermittent windshield wiper and wound up suing the Big Three auto companies after they all told him to buzz off when he demanded royalties. After nearly 25 years of litigation, he collected large sums ($11 million for Chrysler alone) but the court fight became an all-consuming passion that, from what I've read, all but destroyed his lift. If you want to read more about it, Google "Robert Kearns" and patent and you will find a couple dozen newspaper and other stories. So, it is possible for someone to benefit from patent litigation against the largest corporations, but, and this is a huge but, it may destroy your life in the process and the odds against your success are staggering. Statistically, you would be better off to take the patent fees, go to Las Vegas and put the money on 00 at the roulette wheel. At least you would enjoy the process and perhaps even get a free drink or two. If you bet enough, you can even get a free hotel room. Jack -----Original Message----- From: pic microcontroller discussion list [mailto:PICLIST@MITVMA.MIT.EDU]On Behalf Of Lawrence Lile Sent: Monday, August 11, 2003 7:07 PM To: PICLIST@MITVMA.MIT.EDU Subject: Re: [ot]: How best to sell your gadget? > my employers, because they paid for the patent procedure. Then (1978-1982) > it cost about $6000 to get a patent. Today its about twice that much. Try ten times. We literally have some patents that cost $100,000 by the time the lawyers got through messing around. Increase that again if you want patent protection in Europe or elsewhere. OTOH, you can get a patent in South Africa without any fuss, they accept them all without review. Perpetual motion here we come! The Patent office has, I am told by patent lawyers, a quota of patents they must reject each month. So if your patent is in the wrong half of the month, the examiner is required to reject it. Often this will be on very specious grounds, like citing prior art for a ketchup-filled lighter than air balloon and rejecting all the claims on your super-duper cancer detector. I am not making this up, it has happened to me. Defending a patent is futility indeed. Lawyers eat up more than the damages you can inflict on your competitor. Damages must be based on how many he sells in the future, so he just changes his design, then you have a whole new patent infringement fight. You can't win this. If you work for a well-heeled company, by all means get your name on some patents, it makes you look liek a great engineer. If you are a little guy, forget it. Copyright your PCB artwork, schematic and software source code, it costs $10. The best a consultant can expect to do is get his name on one and assign the patent to his customer. Same with employees. -- Lawrence Lile Senior Project Engineer Toastmaster, Inc. Division of Salton, Inc. 573-446-5661 voice 573-446-5676 fax John Peterson Sent by: pic microcontroller discussion list 08/09/2003 07:19 PM Please respond to pic microcontroller discussion list To: PICLIST@MITVMA.MIT.EDU cc: Subject: Re: [ot]: How best to sell your gadget? Nice piece Bob, Thanks for you insight, I especially like the inner wealth part. "Our minds make our reality" John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Axtell" To: Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2003 4:16 AM Subject: Re: [ot]: How best to sell your gadget? > I can only share my experience. I posess 2 patents, both were assigned to > my employers, because they paid for the patent procedure. Then (1978-1982) > it cost about $6000 to get a patent. Today its about twice that much. > > In electronics, patents are really pretty worthless, since they are very > easy to circumvent legally. I no longer have the slightest interest in a > patent, and I advise my clients not to bother patenting electronics. But if > you have an IDEA that is new, it might be worth patenting. > > More below... > > > > > > > At 12:22 PM 8/9/2003 -0500, you wrote: > >What's the best thing to do when trying to produce or sell your gadget? > > The best thing to do FIRST is to make a prototype and VERIFY the idea. If > you are not knowledgeable about that area, find someone who is. Most > consultants are reputable, and will sign an agreement to NOT use or pass on > your idea. But some states have very strict time limits; in Georgia, for > example, any non-disclosure agreement longer than 3 years will be tossed > out by a Georgia court. > > Once you're certain the idea is good, the next thing is to get backing. > Unless you are independently wealthy, you will need money- LOTS of it- to > make an idea viable. If the gadget is a high-volume toy or gadget, it will > have to be made in Asia (Mexico, maybe, if you are LUCKY), as the tax > burden in the US is simply too great to keep the costs low enough to be > manufactured here. To keep from being ripped off- and the Chinese do it > EVERY DAY- you will need to know the right people, again, consultants are > needed. (I can tell you some horror stories about well-known American > companies who shipped their precious plastics molds off to China, then > couldn't get them back from the vendor). > > If your idea is NOT high volume, or can be sold at a high-enough margin to > be made here, you'll still need to watch your money, but you'll have a > chance. Contact local investors. Believe it or not, the best local > investors are dentists and doctors, and they always have $50,000 handy. > Actually, some don't even care if you make money.. they just need a tax > writeoff now and then. > > But keep this in mind.. They are investing in YOU, not your idea. > > >Can you really get a patent? > > Yes. Costs a lot of money. Patents just give you the right to take someone > to court. Unless you have M----, a patent will do you little good. > > >Are there any companies that will make your product without stealing it > >and can you get a percentage of the value if the thing takes off? > > Rarely. This is a pipedream, for the most part. See, what makes a company > successful is not the IDEA. You are focusing on the idea, when you should > be focusing on locating people who can run a company and make good decisions. > > There is an urban legend that says "Build a better mousetrap and the world > will beat a path to your door." Its a myth. In fact, you have to (1) design > a better mousetrap, (2) verify that is really IS better, (3) convince > investors that it can be sold at a profit, (4) manufacture the mousetrap so > its a reliable product, (5) convince the public that its a better mousetrap > (advertising), (6) ship the product to the customers, then finally (7) > COLLECT the money from the customers. After several years, the company > finally begins to make money. then might be able to buy that sports car. > > >Catsup and mustard in the same > >bottle!........................................ > > Well, I wouldn't buy any, but someone will. > > -- > > My 2cents: > > Whether someone is a success or not is a state of mind. People are rich > INSIDE before they are rich externally. How many times has a lottery winner > won millions, yet a year later, he's dead broke? its because he doesn't > THINK of himself as rich. Rich is NOT money, its a state of mind. > Conversely, look at Donald Trump. This buy has been broke many times, but > inside he's rich. If you took away every dime Trump had and threw him into > the middle of the Sahara Desert, inside of a year he'd have build a casino > or hotel, and he'd have money again. > > Think about what you want, then get with it. Take business courses so that > you can manage your own destiny. Join with like-minded people. You'll fail > at first, everyone does, its like having to get wet to take a bath. Just > stick with it. Do it yourself. Design it, manufacture it, and sell it over > the WWW. > > Good luck! > > --Bob > > > > --------------- > NOTICE > > 1. This account can accept email & attachments up to 10M in size. > 2. 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