Oops forgot the colon. Thanks for the reply Mr. James Newton. I just received some PIC18F1320 from Microchip, but I can't program = them. I updated my Picstart+ with the lasted firmware but it does not support the 18F1x20 series parts. I do not want to buy a ICD2, but are there any = less expensive alternatives out there. I am a hobbyist, and this is my = first=20 post but have been viewing for a few weeks now. Thanks in advanced for any suggestions, Keith Richard "Keith" Pueschel Covega Corporation =20 10335 Guilford Road 240-456-7111 =20 Jessup, Maryland 20794 kpueschel@covega.com -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics