This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C3561B.F99E4230 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > - try without an xtal on the target > > OK, Done. Got the same "OK,fail,OK,fail,OK..." pattern > (*if* powering off between each run) That votes against a slow /MCLR rise as the problem. > > - try with the dongle circuit > And that is what ? It implements the official Vpp-before-Vcc enter-programming sequence. So far I have found that necessary only for PICs that have their /MCLR configured as input, but maybe these 18F's are the first that realy need this even when the /MCLR pin is just the reset. You need the extra circuit as attached, to be put between the programmer and the target. Preferrably feed the target and the programmer by separate 5 Volts, or else add a 220u cap at the programmer's power pins (it will steal from the target via the diode). The power to the target must be short-circuit proof, recover fast, and not deliver more than 2 A or so when shorted. A 7805 or 78L05 power satisfies this requirements easily. Wouter van Ooijen -- ------------------------------------------- Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: www.voti.nl consultancy, development, PICmicro products -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? 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