by cohesive I mean there is one source for it that is definitive(well 99.9% of the time anyway) and that everything in the package "just works" with itself. I click setup, go away, come back in a while and its all done. simple. I think thats why I like it so much, its as complicated as you want it to be or as simple. VB lets you use external resources. Everything from SOAP (though the server isnt that nice) to dll's ocx's whole bunch of stuff. Hell if you wanted to you can write dll's and controls in VB and package them up to be just like mickysoft's included ones. I have never had a problem with VBRUN files even before I programmed in it, some times I didn't have the right ones but if that happened I just downloaded the latest runtime package and went from there. (if you still have a problem put the appropreate vbrun file in the same dir as the exe file) I don't know if that program pops a box up with the word ouch in it or what but to me this is more readablle sub Button1_Click btButton1.caption = "Ouch" End Sub (and you don't even have to put the sub command in it, its already done for you ;->) What is tcl? in simple terms ;-> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter L. Peres" To: Sent: Monday, June 23, 2003 2:59 AM Subject: Re: [OT] My version of visual programming > >> And how does that compare with other rad tools like vc++ vtcl python > >> and more ? > > > Well from what I have seen of VC++ its easier to use in many ways, and I > > dont know about the vtcl python but I had a quick look around on google > > and VB seems to be a much more cohesive tool. > > Ah, cohesive ? What is cohesive ? You mean it has everything packed in it > and you do not need (nor can you) use external resources ? > > Borland C Builder has been around since before M$ had rad tools (I still > have Turbo C 2.0). Its user interface is correspondingly smooth. I am not > bashing VB but apart from a 'good' name aquired by volume and advertising, > what advantages does it have ? It is well known that you can write > spaghetti code in any language, it need not be Basic. Nor is structured > Basic, like VB, very hard to maintain or use as a language. > > The problem I see (as an occasional compiled VB application user) is > libraries (VBRUNxxx.DLL). Somehow I never have the right version installed > and if you have several they tend to knock each other out (new library > overwrites old during install). I do not know the details but this > happened twice so far (while using maybe 4 applications that require > VBRUN.xxx). > > As to others, esp. tcl, here is a pair of buttons in tcl/tk, done without > a gui (vtcl is a gui for making tcl apps, spectcl more so - also produces > java code): > > -- snip -- > ## simple tcl application (two buttons for the price of one) > # colors > set bg1 #FFD0B0 > set bg2 #D0FFD0 > # buttons > button .b1 -text "Push me!" -background $bg1 -command { puts "Ouch!" } > button .b2 -text "Exit" -background $bg2 -command { exit } > # show the buttons, one on top of the other > pack .b1 .b2 -side top -fill both > ## the end. Really, that's it. Plug: visit http://www.scriptics.com/ > -- snap -- > > How about that for ease of programming ? And it runs on many platforms as > is, including on Windows. Python uses Tcl/tk for graphics (more or less > directly). > > Peter > > -- > http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics > (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.