Thanks for the info. I remember looking at the TLVP Programmer before and didn't spend much time looking at it since I already had three 16F84's. I see now there is also a THVP programmer that should be simple to build as well. I have two things I plan on trying. First, I will try Byron Jeff's Trivial HVP programmer and see if that works with my 16F84. I think I actually have a 74HCT573 chip at home. If not, I think I can run out and get one locally. I will try to program using David Tait's FPP. If this doesn't work, and just for future work, I think I will order a couple 16F628's and trial the Trivial LVP programmer. I have a feeling the 13V+ needed for the 16F84 may be part of my problem, even though I've double-checked everything. Also, I have a correction to my original post. I tried using my P16PRO again with the PICALL Windows software and it does give an error message when I try to program a 16F84. I don't have the error written down, but it reports a problem at a specific address... I will let you know how it works out. -----Original Message----- From: Bruce Douglas [mailto:bdouglas@UOL.COM.BR] Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 2:16 PM To: PICLIST@MITVMA.MIT.EDU Subject: Re: [PIC]: Disgruntled PIC Beginner Questions > . I have tried building several programmers, > including El Cheapo and NOPPP. I have purchased an assembled P16PRO. > Everything I have tried has failed and I am becoming very discouraged. I am Somewhere around I have a bag with the mortal remains of 5 or 6 different programmers which didn't work for me. What solved the problem for me was recognizing that the parallel port on the motherboard in my computer outputs only 3.3 volts. This was handled using Byron Jeff's programmer with the HCT series level shifting IC in it to get the voltages on my port up to 5 volts for the PIC. http://www.finitesite.com/d3jsys/ has two different designs, I used the THVP design since I thought this would be compatible with more PICs. This might be worth trying. Congratulations on your persistance this far, though. It will be worth the effort. Bruce Douglas -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email listserv@mitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email listserv@mitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body