I got an email from a student in Adrian, Michigan who's building a propeller clock for a school project - he's got it almost done but needs to get a 16F84 programmed and doesn't have enough time left to build his own programmer. If there's anyone nearby that can help, please email him. His name is Joe Kaufman, his email address is: joe.kaufman@eudoramail.com Thanks, Bob -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.