Thanks for the info re tile drills. One suggestion I saw on the web was that you use a drill press with the spring removed and let the weight do the work. Build a dam to hold turps as lubricant then watch and wait The glass supplier I went to (which does stained glass and fittings for local artisans and hobbyists - "The Raffia") did mention that tile bits aren't suitable, but they probably have higher ideals and standards when it comes to their chosen profession, whereas I'd make do with a slightly naff job for home and friends. I even suggested using a masonry cutter to them but the outbreak of air sucked through teeth pretty much brought that particular thread to a speedy conclusion Yours and Spehro's replies think maybe I shouldn't necessarily take the experts' word as being the final opinion. The way they do it commercially is likely to be far more refined and efficient than a way it could be done amateurly -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads