Imho verify that the 12C508JW is still alive by programming a blinking light program or something. I have dispatched at least one 12C508JW into the netherworld by touching the MCLR pin first when lifting it off a table (MCLR is Vpp and it has no upper protection diode - it is also located on a corner so it's easy to touch). Peter -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.