Hm, right now I'm doing some experiments with Laserjet prints, an iron and some laminate. Standard printer paper don't work well, as you said. The melted toner not only sticks to the coper, it also sticks hard to the paper base. Right now I have a test with "coated inkjet paper" in the water to take the paper off. we'll see... ...a couple of hours (and beers) later... Well, it's still some problem to get the paper off the laminate after the ironing. Maybe I should have let it stay longer in the water. I Just left it there for a couple of minutes. Anyway, this DynaArt transfer paper, is that something like the Press-n-Peel material from Techniks ? I have done some test with PnP-Wet, but my problem seems to be that the PnP paper is thicker (and harder to warm in th printer) so large black areas gets large dropouts. Is the DynaArt material much thinker then standard paper ? Do you have some link to the producer of DynaArt ? What about this material that are used to iron pictures on T-shirts ? Maybe I'll buy me a package... Jan-Erik Soderholm PS. Earlier to day I bought hydrochloric acid (30%) and hydrogen peroxide (30%). I mixed 1 part of each with 10 parts water and got much faster etching (at room temp) then with the Ammonium/Sodium Persulphate etchers. One just have to make sure that one pour the *hydrochloric acid* into the *water* and not the other way around... DS. -----Original Message----- From: Eric Schlaepfer [mailto:eschlaep@CALPOLY.EDU] Sent: den 28 mars 2003 19:43 To: PICLIST@MITVMA.MIT.EDU Subject: Re: [EE]: Etchant tank One of these days I will try out the photoresist approach. What copper thickness did you use for that? I think my etching time was for 1 ounce copper, although the board is from scrap and I am not sure how thick the copper is. I've been using toner transfer for my boards, usually with the DynaArt transfer paper. However, this last etch I was out of transfer paper so I used a photocopier with plain paper, which didn't work very well at all. I had to touch up the design with a sharpie to fill in all the dropouts. Later, Eric >I use photoresist and thin ccopper and it is very resistant to over-etching. >The board can be finished in 5 minutes, and if I take it out after 10 >minutes, no damage has been done. > > KreAture > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "jim barchuk" >To: >Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 6:48 AM >Subject: Re: [EE]: Etchant tank > > > > >>Hi Eric and All! >> >>On Thu, 27 Mar 2003, Eric Schlaepfer wrote: >> >> >> >>>Well, this makes me feel good--I just etched a board today which took >>>over an hour to etch. (Fresh ferric chloride too!) >>> >>>Maybe I should get some kind of heater for the solution... >>> >>>Later, >>> >>>Eric >>> >>> >>> >>>>Just wondering... How fast do you get a board etched with this >>>>gravety-method ? >>>>With my self-modded bubble-tank I can etch a 70x120mm 1-sided board in >>>> >>>> >about > > >>>>5 minutes with fresh acid. Is it comparable to your speeds? >>>> >>>> >>I did about a year of 'small shop' PCB work many years ago. Did everything >>from film processing, resist laminating and exposing, silk screen resist, >>electroless PTH, etching, copper and solder plating, gold finger plating, >>shearing, routing. The only thing I didn't do much was drilling because I >>frigging hated it. :) >> >>There were no heaters or bubblers anywhere. In fact it was pretty cold in >>winter. The only agitation anywhere was the electroless. >> >>That '5 minute etch' sure makes me nervous. 'Enough' etch is enough. >>Anything more and it starts to undercut the resist. IIRC that was in the >>20-30 min range or thereabouts. Maybe it was the concentration, because >>now that I think about it the whole time I was there we never changed that >>solution. >> >>In any case my point is 'enough' vs 'too much.' For the solution we had, >>if 20 mins was enough and I missed it by a few % it was no big deal. The >>same % of 5 mins is *much* shorter and easier to miss, and possibly cut a >>track. >> >>I guess it's a matter of 'what's it worth?' If I spent a bunch of time >>drawing or dry transfering or photo shooting a board I don't think I'd >>mind much if it took a bunch longer to etch *and* I didn't have to worry >>about undercutting. The first two methods cost time, the last costs $. In >>either case I'd rather not risk needing to throw something away and >>starting over again. Besides, the extra time isn't exactly wasted because >>I'd be off doing something else anyway. >> >>Too eatch their own. :) >> >>Have a :) day! >> >>jb >> >>-- >>jim barchuk >>jb@jbarchuk.com >> >>-- >>http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: >>[PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads >> >> >> > >-- >http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: >[PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads > > > -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads