My choice was the PIC-X1 I installed dual headers on the Ziff pins so I could have total control of all th pins features and could program any pic with it. It also has LEDs, a buzzer, RS232, RS485, EEPROM, RTC ,4x4 matrix keypad, and a LCD all of which can either be used or left alone with the use of jumbers. OH it can also support 4 to 20 meg clock speeds via the multiplier. Great board. I ened up mounting mine on a cabinet along with my EPIC programmer ( which plugs right in by the way) and included a 3200 point breadboard circuit... just in case I got overly mischeivious. The schematic anf programs are available from Melabs Eddie, kc4awz -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads