The BIOS password does indeed work. As far as the Windows system password goes, it seems to be a total PITA. Not only can't I get rid of the damn thing (despite following web instructions) but it's interfering with my mail log-on and consequently my start to the day. Falling out of bed I hit the power switch and by the time I stagger back from making a wake-up cuppa the mail from you lovely lot is waiting for me. That's gone for a toss now because there are two password screens to deal with. There'll be an answer to fix that but it'll have to wait until I'm done with a couple of assembly jobs, don't want to risk / can't be bothered getting sidetracked for hours Thanks for replies -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.