Hi. I also started with the 18F-series a couple of months ago You don't need (and I'm note sure there is) some programer that's *specificaly* for the 18F series. I'v used Wisp628 with Xwisp software from www.voti.nl. Supports most current PIC types, incl the new 8-pin 12F629 an 12F675. I built it from "scratch" incl etching my own PCB, but there are complete kits on the page above. Work just fine ! I use the 18F252, b.t.w. Jan-Erik S=F6derholm. John Nall wrote : > There are complete kits with all hardware, programmers, etc., > available for these. Are similar things available for the 18F = series??? -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.