> > Are similar things available for the 18F series??? ... > Just get a 40pin ZIF I don't want to argue with your recommendation of the kitrus programmer (but of course my Wiso628 is also(?) a good choice), but I vote passionately against a ZIF socket. I would recommend the OP to use only flash PICs (easy, he already choose 18F) and to go for In-Circuit programming. Very convenient, much faster, no wear on the IC pins, no expensive ZIF socket. and - check Microchip's ICD2 - read http://www.voti.nl/swp - I have a zero-pin (actually reset-pin) bootloader for the 18F's, it will appear on a web page soon but you can have a copy if you want Wouter van Ooijen -- ------------------------------------------- Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: www.voti.nl consultancy, development, PICmicro products -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.