I have just tested a small instrumentation project (which Sid is familiar with) that uses individual 1" tall 7 seg LED's from Lumex. I did all I could to maximize the brightness - even cheating with the current to the point of knowingly having shortened the part's life span. Indoors, in any lighting condition I can reasonably produce, the brightness is fantastic. Outdoors, it's a real dog, only clearly readable in shade or indirect sunlight. I have tried tinted plastic of various densities and at varying distances from the display surface - all to no avail. The only thing I have left to try is to increase the mux freq a bit, but am now questioning how much difference this CAN make. I have seen LED displays in outdoor environments, and with the latest generation of ultrabrights available I would expect more... Am I missing something, or should I just ditch the LED idea and go to a different display technolgy??? Chris -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.