It turns out that the oscillators are alright. I just upgraded my software, and it seems that MPASM is not working or setup properly. I am using microcode studio with picbasic pro and the melabs loader, and when using 18F452 pics this software needs mpasm to handle the 18Fxxx. I changed back to the 16F877 and it didn't work correctly either. using mpasm. removed mpasm and used PBP's built in assembler and everything seems fine. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.