This gets discussed about every couple of weeks. My advice would be to check the archives, as well as the piclist.com website (http://www.piclist.com) and check out the programmers list there. Your best bet is to check out all the programmers you're interested in yourself, as only you know how complicated a design you can construct, and whether or not it will truly meet all your specs. Josh -- A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools. -Douglas Adams Adi Linden wrote: > What is a good programmer, where documentation is available and that is > actively maintained to support all the new PICs' out there? Some of my > requirements are, no external power, can be build myself, in-circuit > programming. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.