Hi, I've seen quite a few different programmers out there over time. Long time ago I purchased the ITU programmer and it's been doing fine but requires external power. Now I am looking at building a new programmer. What is a good programmer, where documentation is available and that is actively maintained to support all the new PICs' out there? Some of my requirements are, no external power, can be build myself, in-circuit programming. Adi -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.