alright, you guys got me interested in building a hobby board... in my solderless breadboard circuits, I just have a 4.7k resistor from mclr to +5vdc I think the data sheet tells you to take mclr to ground, to reset the pic, true? if so, what is the difference between doing this and recycling the power? or is a reset exactly the same as powering off then on? second. can you use a reset, to get bootloader programs to load up?? (I have always been using a power reset?) thanks for any lumination... so far, a printed circuit hobby board for me would be a big improvement if it just had the pic and the power supply, so that's what I'm doing. a 7805 with a capacitor, a power led and resistor and a switch. and the pic with the registers going to a socket where I can jam a solderless breadboard connector wire...and I use rb6 and rb7 thru resisters for programming via bootloader and rs232 feedback -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.