I had a similar problem doing ICSP with my P16Pro and either 18F248 or 18F458 recently. I could program from the ZIF but not in the application board, though I've had similar 16F chips that programmed fine by cable. My troubles came from the LVP option being enabled, I guess my circuit board was fooling the chip into believing that I was trying to do Low Voltage programming. Using MPLAb 6.10, I couldn't find any defines for LVP_ON or LVP_OFF for either of the 18Fxx8 chips I've used so far. I wrote them into the header files, and have had much better results now. I'm still on breadboards with DIP, but the final version will be SMT. I wonder how I can modify my board to not make the chip think I'm using a low voltage programmer? Good Luck, Lyle -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email listserv@mitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body