You might try to ICSP with the crystal removed, or the osc otherwise stopped. If that works the programmer/cable/board does not create a /MCLR rise time that is quick enough. BTW what circuitry do you have on /MCLR, RB6, RB7, RB5? Wouter van Ooijen -- ------------------------------------------- Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: www.voti.nl consultancy, development, PICmicro products -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.