no one has explained yet why I can light up LEDs just by connecting them to the leads and spinning the shaft = energy out. Any takers on an explanation? Perhaps it contains a small permanant magnet somewhere to aid in starting or something? I can light LEDs with itty-bitty stepper motors from old printers; a largish motor ought to make them explode, if it were based on similar technology :-) BillW -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.