Mega-OT, but here goes... On Sun, 2002-11-10 at 19:20, Wagner Lipnharski wrote: As far as Digikey goes, as a customer I've rarely experienced what you have. I hope they're not on the downward side of the quality curve. Not to get off on a rant here, but... > My standby personnel answer emails within 6 hours of contact. On evenings > when we most receive emails from customers, they get surprised that we > answer in minutes up to 2am. My company is NOT on ISO-9000 yet, but > appears that we don't need it, we do our job as planned and as promised, > except, when a lousy supplier messes up with our plans. You may or may not ever need it. Thank your lucky stars that you have such dedicated individuals on your staff, too. (And thank *THEM* often.) The only time you need the certifications is just like in your personal and professional life. If you couldn't apply for a job you wanted to do or to bid on, because you didn't meet the prerequisite requirement of having a certification, you'd go get the certification. If your customers seem to think you need it to do the job, or worse, your customers say that only ISO-certified companies can bid on their projects... you get certified. Because that's the game. (Once the customers figure out that there is little value in the certifications the requirement will pass -- rejoice when a company that's "certified" makes a mistake... it will help kill the perception that there's value in the certification.) In the three organizations I've been involved in that did ISO certifications, the only thing they appeared to learn internally as a skill they could retain from the process was how to create more paperwork and less sale-able product, and their marginal cost of production went up. Way up. (As best as I could figure.) But because of the cost involved, once they started down that path it was typical "herd" mentality... It *MUST* be good to have this certification, right? Everyone else has it! And we're almost there! The last company I worked for that was doing an ISO-9000 certification dropped the process when hard times hit... they realized they could better service their customers with their "downsized" staff by working on customer issues, rather than on the reams of documentation necessary for ISO certification. And the proof is in the pudding. They're still alive while competitors died off. It was the right choice for their niche. Depending on your industry, choosing to not certify may not be right for you. If you already know how to design, document, and deliver product to your customers properly, and they're satisfied with your performance, no piece of paper like ISO will ever speak louder than the personal references of your customers and their experiences with your organization or you... UNLESS there's a REQUIREMENT that you have the certification to sell to certain customers. For a while in any closed market there will be powerful interest in NOT dropping the requirement because other larger organizations (with more cushion of time and money to waste) will see the money they spent getting the certification (instead of servicing their customers) as valuable to them -- even a "competitive advantage" -- and they'll defend their closed market of customers who say "we require you to be certified" and even actively foster that opinion with their customers "Hey! We're better, we're ISO Certified!". But eventually customer service and delivering what the customer wants always wins. Many technology certifications for individuals are similar -- if the individual already has proven aptitude toward learning specific types of skills in system administration, network configuration, and/or operating system and application software setup and configuration -- forcing the individual to have a certification in those topics on a specific technology is relatively silly, because most of the technology is not "new" but just "repackaged" every few years. However, Human Resource departments do this all the time. Serial data is still serial data, TCP/IP is still TCP/IP, storage management is still storage management, databases are still databases. [Another side rant: When did we become Human Resources and not Personnel? Don't you think that choice of words says something right there to the brilliant, intelligent employees you need to run your business?] As a person who has been a hiring manager before in a large organization in the past -- I *dreamed* of getting something other than the sanitized, sorted, and censored resumes the HR department forwarded to me. (And this is probably why personal references still get people jobs 80-90% of the time over resumes... interviewing and hiring the RIGHT person is hard to do from a piece of paper that summarizes their life.) Show me the crappy looking resume of the guy or gal that dragged their butt up from a menial "non-thinking" job to a entry-level help desk position while working two other jobs to pay the bills while they were learning, instead of the freshly-minted "MCSE" from the technology "college" in the burbs who thinks he or she deserves the job... any day... I know who I'll hire and want to mentor. I've long ago left management. I'd rather play with the technology, and I will probably always be that way. And I'll always remember what my first "real" manager taught me to remember as I worked my first engineering job... "Quality Assurance is not a department. It's an attitude. Do it, and admit your mistakes. Never rely on someone else to check the quality of your work -- it's your work. Even if it's their job to check it." His words have carried me far beyond what anyone ever expected of the kid who didn't have an engineering degree. I've been the lead product support "engineer" on numerous very high-dollar complex projects, and can walk the talk. I have the utmost respect for those with an engineering degree who apply their knowledge -- they can easily whoop my backside any day of the week. If they want to. And they deserve the title of "Engineer" (with a capital-E) far more than I do. But I've learned that people are ultimately lazy creatures, and those who have the mathematical talent and educational background sometimes believe they're entitled to a certain lifestyle because they "know more than you do". About that time is when I put on the steam, pour the coal to it, and whip them by taking better care of their customers than they do. I'm usually not in it for the accolades, or awards or anything like that... that's just the icing on the cake... Sometimes I am motivated just because they said "you can't do that... you don't know how." Nothing motivates me more or gets me more charged up than to make someone else's customer happier with my service and abilities than a competitor did... ESPECIALLY if they're supposed to be "certified" or "qualified" and I'm not. Oh man, is that FUN! But having a customer REMEMBER you a decade later and tell you that you always gave them the best service... That's something to be treasured. It doesn't happen often. Keep the faith -- take care of your customers and throw the pamphlets from the ISO-selling certification people in the trash if you can afford to. Your customers will know you're the place to go when they need something. (And then my cynical side kicks in and says that... Then... your bigger competitor who can't figure out how you did it will buy you out -- but hopefully that means you'll laugh all the way to the bank... and do it all over again in something else...) Just smile and grin when you see "ISO 900X Certified" -- that means the other company spent a lot of their people's time, and a whole lot of money on the certification that you can spend making things better for your customers! Nate, nate@natetech.com -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email listserv@mitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body