good idea and it could double also warn me of low flying= Policemen. I had pondered on playing with a PIR out of security wotsit - but= I'm looking for something that is relatively cheap and repeatable.= The capacitive/shorted PCB/Probe will be my last resort mainly= because it's easy to do and most other people use it - I like to be differentish. colin -- cdb, bodgy1@optusnet.com.au on 04/11/2002 -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics