By the way, I always use more optimization passes than the default setup does. With the right parameters in 8 optimization passes you can get a significant reduction in vias and traces that aren't restricted to horizontal or vertical. I hadn't thought of that. Are you using one of the cadsoft-provided ctl files, or are you willing to post what you are using? Thanks Bill W -- http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList mailto:piclist-unsubscribe-request@mitvma.mit.edu