On Sat, 19 Oct 2002, Roman Black wrote: *>* when the friction surface has a uneven friction *>system, like the angled plastic "carpet" fibres *>shown on the web page for that commercial system. *>Horizontal vibration is all that is required. More exactly one of the vibrations, or the contact friction must be non-linear, resp. asymmetrical. There was a model 'robot' demo that used two toothbrush heads glued under a vibrator unit, both inclined at about 15 degrees in the same direction. I built it once, it works. If you couple two such vibrators loosely with an axle then you could have the equivalent of a two-wheel desktop robot. No gears, moves slowly, high mass is not a problem, noise is, won't go backwards (I have ideas on this using two vibrators, one x one y, and control the phase between them, with straight brushes). Travel could be measured by a free coasting wheel and encoder, or better, build an optical mouse into the axle between the drive units, and slightly behind them so it tends to run straight. Maybe this is the future of desktop robots. Sunday I'll build one to see (note to self: buy 4 hard bristled toothbrushes). Peter -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads