Perhaps from the programmers perspective but surely pointers were used "under the hood". There is simply no way that I can thik of to perform array and string operations without pointers. No, no. Those things used "under the hood" are ADDRESSES, without which you can't do much of anything (no jumps or calls, for instance.) A "pointer" is a particular implementation of an address-like capability in a high level language, and that's quite different. When you talk about "Joe the Dense" not understaning "pointers", you're almost certainly talking about the HLL definition - he may or may not understand "addresses." (I did mention being comfortable with assembly language pointers for quite some time before connecting them with HLL pointers, right? Perhaps the difficulties some people have with pointers is BECAUSE many HLLs do such a good job hiding any need for them...) Pointers in C, of course, have semantics, capabilities, and quirks that extend their incomprehensibility far beyond those of other languages, not to mention the fact that they're NECESSARY so often. Fortunately, there are tools you can use if you have to define a pointer to a function that returns a pointer to a function or similar :-)` BillW -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email listserv@mitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body