Russell, Thanks for the information. Sorry I am new at all this. I came up with an idea for a device and wanted to see if I could build it. Data rate would only have to be around 2400 baud. Range would be person to person or person to unit (IE: PDA or Palm device). Bi-directional -- yes as each unit talks to one another. Bi-directional I was hoping to solve by each unit or device would have an IR transmitter and IR receiver. As for packet size and reliability I think they go hand and hand. The packet would need to be serialized or stamped so that other IR devices would be ignored until communication was completed with the first device it came in contact with. If communication was interrupted it would drop the current data after a few seconds due to a not seeing the end of packet bit. I was hoping I could use the PIC16F628's oscillator to create the 38khz frequency but I am not sure yet if this is possible. I like the http://www.rentron.com site but in the site description of this solution they use a 38khz chip on the IR transmitter and uses a basic stamp for the receiver. I have to say the site is very informative. To all other thanks goes out to who replied. Rob -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.