Hi y'all, Fixed it ! The problem was caused by a 100nF decoup cap across the +5V to gnd. Cap in -> no program, Cap out -> program! I have had this in for many other projects (usually '877 or '876) without any problems but I guess the line on the PS+ driving the +5v for the '628 just hasn't got what it takes. The logic analyser indicated the timing was right but I guess it's trip level and that required by the 628 were not the same. Anyway it is just something to watch out for when using a PS+ to "ICSP" program a '628. (I know - the PS+ is not meant for ICSP - but I have had no problems until now because I keep my lines very short ~1-2cm). John -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.