> How did you manage to do that ?! One soscketed one in ICSP on the same > programmer ? Did I guess right ? (now why am I saying this ...) Correct. I have a programmer with a ZIF socket (for programming chips with WLoader), but it also has a connector for ICSP. After some frustration with the 18f452 chip in the socket I switched to a 16f242 (28 pin, does not fit in socket, so using the ICSP connector). Did not work either, so disconnect and put a 16f877 in the socket (for comparison). Worked flawlessly, so back to the 16242 (*oops* forgot to remove the 16f877!). The ID that I read was the AND of the IDs of both chips, which confirms theory that pull-down is stronger than pull-up. Now why do those damn 16F87xA's refuse to oscillate? Wouter van Ooijen -- ------------------------------------------- Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: www.voti.nl consultancy, development, PICmicro products -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email listserv@mitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body