"... example of where we are NOT yet accepting the lessons of human nature and human failings is Genetic Engineering. Notwithstanding its very real potential advances, we are also *potentially* heading for a disaster through GE, the like of which the world has not seen for about 700 years." We have already crossed that line without hope for returning. By our attempts immunize and systematic use of antibiotics and various strains of contagin become resistant to them we have already moved onto a different path than what we would travel allowing nature to simply proceed at her own pace via evolution and the natural life and death cycles that involves. Furthermore - we have already changed our food chain through the process of selective breeding - a crude form of genetic engineering to be sure, but nonetheless a form ... and this has been ongoing for how long now? Granted - it may have been rather simple in it's form 300 hundred years ago, but we have always picked the better crops/fruits/animals for reproduction and procreation over those less stalwart or less healthy. So, what does the medical community have as evidence in the way of abnormal rates of disease and mortality that indicate mankind has erred? (I'm visualizing a scenario similar to the global warming proponents now - "our models show ..." without complete regard to the true operation of physics (in the case of the environment) and biology in the case of GeneEng gone awry ...) RF Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Russell McMahon" To: Sent: Monday, August 19, 2002 9:02 PM Subject: Re: [OT]: Space travel disasters > > > > Some times, I wonder if going with the lowest cost is in everyone's > > > > best interest. I think I remember hearing that a rubber O-ring > > > > caused some space flight disaster (possibly the Challenger). It was > > > > too cold to launch that day, and the washer became stiff, and didn't > > > > seal properly. > > > > Just a note: It was the Challenger. Furthermore, it was board member and > > Nobel prize-winning physicist Richard P. Feynman who publically > demonstrated > > the O-ring problem. He compressed a piece of O-ring material with a > C-clamp, > > held it in ice water for several minutes, then removed and unclamped it. > He > > was able to show that the O-ring did not return to its original shape. > > Therefore, the ring's ability to seal was lost. > > Yes - but the problem was known about long before that. > Feynman produced a minority report which outlined the sad and sorry trail of > events leading to the disaster. He had to push quite hard to get it > published as a minority report. > > I have read his report and it is both illuminating and sad. Feynman > concluded, and few would question his conclusions once they had listened to > his reasoning and seen the material he based them on, that the failure was > essentially bound to happen sooner or later. NASA had been "re-doing" the > science concerned to keep the ring material "in spec" - setting rather > optimistic confidence limits and then using the outer limits as a new > starting point for new work. Partial burn throughs had been occurring on > most flights. NASA sealed the deal by "having" to launch in out of spec > conditions to save face for political purposes. Not doing so would quite > possibly have cost them jobs and funding, but doing so cost them a Shuttle > and 7 lives. > > It's easy to be wise after the event about what other people should have > done. The harder thing is to learn the lessons that they should have learned > and apply them to our situations where they can do some good. One good > example of where we are NOT yet accepting the lessons of human nature and > human failings is Genetic Engineering. Notwithstanding its very real > potential advances, we are also *potentially* heading for a disaster through > GE, the like of which the world has not seen for about 700 years. But the > standard vested interests of money, pride & power (sex seems to largely be > missing from this one) are driving us on. With any luck we will blunder into > something which will "only" kill a few thousand people world wide or > compromise the immune system of a similar number of people or destroy an > "unimportant" species or two, and thereby alert Joe-Public to where we might > be going. Failing this we MIGHT learn enough to completely avoid the very > real major dangers but it is entirely possible that instead we will wipe out > 25% of the population of Europe just as a flea borne disease managed to do > about 700 years ago. (But this time, a few other continents would be > involved as well and the percentage deaths could be higher). Anyone who > thinks this ISN'T a real prospect may wish to tell us why. > > > > Russell McMahon > > -- > http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList > mailto:piclist-unsubscribe-request@mitvma.mit.edu > -- http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList mailto:piclist-unsubscribe-request@mitvma.mit.edu