In the end , newbies to pics are going to join the list , and STILL ask questions (to which the answers have already been answered and still available) - "how do I program the PIC16C84 ?" - which translates to " I wanna get this hex code for decoding *satellite channels on the internet , and now I want to get it onto the PIC " ;-) Now the first thing we will be telling them is to get the PIC18F1220 ( this is the future we are talking about) and to remember not to turn of the comparators (uC ,this is the future uC). Then we tell them about the $50-100 developement board touted by all PIClisters . But ,they say , "Iwannagetthepicprogrammed . $50 bucks ? I haven't googled ("what is this 'search' ? I might google its meaning later or maybe not") the archives , and hey man , I am sure I will find that some of them earn $1/day. And this pic you are saying to get costs just that! But I need to pay $50 to get a development"- (spelt korrekt ,no?)-"board. I'd rather pay for for my satelitte." I fear that we may turn away casual electronics enthusiasts from PICs if we move that bar of cheap easy reprogrammability away from them. After all it was the eeprom of the 16c84 that made it the first choice for begginners , and it was the most attractive robust microcontroller of its time . Now that it is relatively unattractive to it's competitors , it must now start playing easy as it is cheap . ( Micro was a realtime operator .... ;-) Just be prepared for $1/day first timers that have satellite at home won't be prepared to buy a development system , no matter how good , and that we need to support them to keep this branch of out hobby (pics) cheap and accessible to them for our ownselves. BTW How many of us spend more than a dollar a day on the hobby part ? Not many , I think . Another thing I want to mention is that if a $100/$200 picstart+ gets you flashing a led , well so what ? When you spend a week soldering , and debugging a system of psu/programmer/code that costs $5 in hardware - and maybe $200 in man hours , Olin - to get a led to flash - now that feels like an achievement. That keeps you interested into spending more to get out more . We all experience instant gratification in some form or other these days and I am telling you man - that first hurdle - tis sweeter to climb it from the bottom on your own. I disclaim all spelling errors! I am still at the first page of the dictionary I meant to read end to end since New Year 1990 . This abject/abhorrent/ abominable abeyance has been abbetted by me skipping to read the last page and I have had to abort as I had lost all zest/zeal. This instant gratification thing ... Vis Naicker P.S. I don't have sat-elite/Playstation at home nor the HEX code. And yes ,zygote is the last word in the dictionary. I don't know the parents - I am still at the page 1. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList mailto:piclist-unsubscribe-request@mitvma.mit.edu