> $200 for a programmer that you know will work is cheap, Then just get the Microchip Picstart+ and be done with it. It covers the full product line, is integrated into MPLAB, and is supported by Microchip. For professional work this is a no brainer. We have several around here, although we get them for $100. However, I think the problem is many hobbyists don't want to spend that kind of money. They want something cheap, cheap, cheap, and are willing to spare no expense to get it . They find some flaky parallel port programmer schematic on the web and try to build it because it takes 1 transistor and 2 resistors less than the next programmer design. Then they get into trouble for a variety of reasons. It was exactly such a case that started this discussion. ***************************************************************** Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts (978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email listserv@mitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body