Byron A Jeff wrote:

> * The standalong programmer is accomplished by simply having an optional
>   board with one or more ZIF sockets that plugs into the manditory ICSP
>   interface. The universal programmer is much better covered by Brenden's
>   CUMP design, which it much further along than we are anyway.

You said "optional ZIF socket"?? I think the fact
that Sean stated he can get ZIF sockets cheap in
Taiwan would make it a must-have item. The perceived
value of a ZIF socket to the newbie is high, as it
can be used to program PICs for distribution and for
use in simple designs they got from the net.
ICSP is just NOT as good.

> * The folks who just want a cheap simple programmer, well there are already a
>   bunch of existing Designs and PCBS, including your own El Cheapo. So in this
>   case all we really need to do is nothing at all and let the existing market
>   take care of it.

This point dumbfounds me. I believe that the original
*need* for the standard beginner device was so that
newbies like Kieren wouldn't need to tie-up list member's
time trying to get a home-built programmer working??

So you're saying that after this device consumes a large
amount of list-hours, and become the great device you
mention (which I like BTW!), you do run the risk that
a week after you release the thing you still have Kieren
Mk2 asking which way around to put his transistor
and why it gets so hot?

This *beginner pack* needs to be cheap and *entry-level*
if it is to succeed. For you to state that the new device
fills a higher need, and that the newbies are expected to
keep struggling with transistor orientation in homemade
programmers, seems contrary to the original needs that
prompted the design of a beginner kit. :o)
-Roman

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different
ways.  See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.