Tony Nixon wrote:
>
> Dave King wrote:
>
> > Shouldn't this raise flags about perhaps checking out the available kits.
> > Perhaps looking at them with an eye to adopting one or two with additional
> > software/examples/docs available from the list instead of going through
> > the effort to duplicate the hardware and then the software on top of it.
>
> As I mentioned, the whole V5 package will be available on the web free
> with source code as soon as the last of my kits have sold.


Here's a thought, since Tony's product will soon be
coming available for open source why not use it
as the base for the new PDP? (name changed again?!)

If it does the main features that are required than
maybe time could be better spent just writing the
tutorials/beginner kit, and not with hardware design
which is already done.

I know Byron has put a lot of time and effort into
the basic "needs" of the device, and I respect his
efforts which are of a voluntary nature as with the
generous offers from Sean and everyone else.

The original "seed" of this idea was to make a
fool-proof device to get beginners going quickly, so
the elder list members could point them to standard
fixes and save list time debugging every internet
programmer design built by innocent newbies that
"try the transistor the other way around"...  :o)

The new direction the device has taken is attractive
to me, as it seems to be to some other (mainly
experienced) list members. It would be great to get
a really cheap (subsidised by Sean's factory and
many people's efforts!) *designer* board to work with
F877 and peripherals. It's a cool idea!

But the silence from the newbies is fairly deafening.
Is this really what they want?

In some ways I see the newbie attracted to a simpler
device, one they can use to "program a PIC" and stick
it in a veroboard design they got from the internet.
Let's not forget that many newbies are led to PICs
when they try to build an existing design that just
happens to need a programmed PIC. That's where they
hear about PICs, that's why they want one. :o)

Where the "F877 designer" leads to a quick learning
of PICs it is a very "purist" path, ie; buy the best
platform to learn PICs on, then learn PICs in the
sensible manner with the supplied tutorials.

So what about the hobby robotics guy who needs to
program a 16F84 to go in a home robot design he got
from the net? And wants to get his *first* PIC
programmer going quickly and cheaply? The guy who
wants to program a couple of PICs and send them to his
friend?

So although I personally like the idea of a nice
"designer" device, shouldn't this come down to a vote
from the newbies or recently newbies as to what they
really want, what they need, what scares them?
My needs when I bought my first programmer were
to get something that would program most PICs, so
I could duplicate designs I saw on the net and do
PICs for my own use in devices around the house.
Both bootloading and ICSP would have seemed complex
and unattractive for my needs at that time.

Would it be possible to make a list of simple questions
and get newbies etc to answer with *their* needs
and perceived problems? I saw Myke already started
with a questionaire. If this thing is going to become
a standard that we are all required to understand and
support then let's make sure the newbies are actually
going to BUY the thing. :o)
-Roman

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