On Fri, Aug 16, 2002 at 07:56:31PM +0100, Dominic Stratten wrote: > > > On the subject of breadboards, if we can get them cheap enough then why not > include them. They only tend to be stuck on by double sided foam pads > anyway. Stock them as a spare part which the user can replace when the old > one wears out. I agree with the downside of using these but if they are > cheaply replaceable or even offered as an option, it may be worth looking > at. How about Velcro? ;-) > > I agree that the unit should be factory assembled. This means it can be > fully tested as a whole rather than maybe shipping an unassembled unit which > an end user can botch up and try to blame the manufacturer for their > inability to solder/insert ic's the right way etc etc. We need something to > work "out of the box". Thank you. That's what I've been saying all along. > > Programmer on board ? - you bet !!!! I dont want loads of boards knocking > round my workbench. This unit should be a one stop solution capable of being > permanently attached to a PC. No messing about swapping stuff about, messing > about with cables / psu connectors etc. Thank you. That's what I've been saying all along. ;-) ;-) > > Dual in line 40 pin connector - didn't I suggest that in a previous post ? > ;-) Marvelous idea, I can buy 40 pin - 40 pin cables for less than a dollar. > I actually find it cheaper to buy these than cable on its own and quite > often butcher them to make interconnects between circuits. Any objections anyone? I'm happy because I ecen have a local source for wire wrap connectors. Important because wire wrap is my normal semi-permanent board design technique. > > Zif Socket !!!! Zif Socket !!!! Zif Socket !!!! Zif Socket !!!! Zif Socket > !!!! Zif Socket !!!! Zif Socket !!!! Zif Socket !!!! - get the idea - we > need Zif sockets. DIP sockets dont have the insertion cycle durability for > long term use, people tend to rip them off the board when they dont get > their screwdriver (oops - chip removal tool) in the right place and the > stresses to the solder joints - phew !!!! Also include a ICSP socket so the > end user isnt limited to programming on board - a standard RG11 type socket > (8 way as used on network cards) would be ideal. OK Dominic, help me out. I belive that I've explained how I envisioned the unit to be used: in essense one or two rarely moved PICs onboard with an ICSP connector for offboard target programming. ZIFs imply (or as you explicitly stated! ;-) lots of insertion cycles. I know I may be sounding like a doofus but what's being inserted into the ZIF socket? Why is something being inserted into the socket? Even more specifically what would be inserted into the ZIF socket that wouldn't be connected through one of the other three offered interfaces: ICSP, I/O expansion connector, breadboard? What I'm trying to understand is how this ZIF socket is going to fall within the normal usage of the box. I see probably 80% of the programming occuring to the permanently mounted processor(s) and 15% via the ICSP connector. If my percentages are anywhere near close, then do we really need a permanetly mounted ZIF socket for that last 5% to 10% of programming cases? I have no problem with the RG11 ICSP socket. I really think that the ZIF socket is one of the few items that should be optional and should connect via the ICSP socket. I really feel that I'm missing something here, or maybe I just want to miss something here! ;-) But please explain where either my assumptions above fall down, or despite something close the valid assumptions, you feel that a ZIF is still required. > > Anyway, my contribution for tonight Appreciate it, BAJ -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics